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The Expansionist
Saturday, February 26, 2011
 
Argumentation for Liberal Opponents of Abortion. AOL News had a story today, "From New York to Midwest to South, Abortion Battle Heats Up". I left the following 78 comments (about 4,100 words) and recommend that Liberals who are appalled at the mindless support for abortion that Liberals are supposed to endorse, read my argumentation to sharpen their own.



There is no right of murder.
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Abortion on demand is NOT a Liberal value. Liberals believe in using the power of Government to protect the little guy. Who is littler than an unborn child? Liberals have been duped by evil people into favoring the murder of the weak by the powerful.
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Why would abortions and miscarriages be statistically counted together? That makes no sense, so I can't believe it.
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A child is not part of a woman's body but an altogether different person, distinct in DNA. But you don't need to cite DNA. No BOY could be part of a WOMAN'S body. And I defy you to find the word "abortion" in the Constitution. It's not there, and restrictions on abortion were in place very early in the history of this Republic. A "right" of abortion was the creation of the Supreme Court, not the Framers of the Constitution.
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A mother does not have the right to kill "her" child. The child does not belong to the mother but is his or her own person, with his or her right to life (liberty, and the pursuit of happiness).
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Jesus commanded "As you would have others do to you, so too do to them." Do you REALLY believe a child would CHOOSE to be killed? Cut the crap. The Golden Rule is NOT religious but ethical, and it holds for the unborn as much as for anyone already born. There is no right to abortion in the Bill of Rights or anyplace else in the Constitution.
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The billboard was not the slightest racist. What WOULD be racist -- and would clarify the issue for a lot of people -- is if a billboard demanded that abortion be made illegal except for black children, who could continue to be aborted on demand, with society's blessing. THEN how will the abortion-on-demand crowd react? Will they say that blacks are being given a right that everyone should have, to kill their own child? Or will they say that society is trying to exterminate blacks by murdering their children?
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Perhaps you do not understand even the rudiments of reproduction. A child is NOT part of a woman's "own body". Not at any point whatsoever. From the instant of conception, a child is separate from the mother -- indeed, a great many babies have been conceived in a little glass dish, proving beyond contention that a child is NOT part of a woman's own body. Indeed, a child conceived in a glass dish can be implanted in a woman who is in no way related to him or her. Cut the crap. If women do not want to have children, they should have their tubes tied. If they REFUSE to have their tubes tied, they cannot be heard to complain if they become pregnant. You gamble and lose? Tuf.
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[Responsive to a disparaging reference to "do gooders"] So no one should do good, eh? Interesting perspective -- for psychotics.
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The only crime for which the death penalty can be imposed without a care is the crime of total innocence.
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Mass death is not a "minor distraction".
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So if you can't afford the child you already have, it's fine to kill him or her? Same with elderly parents, etc. Bearing a child does NOT mean having to raise it, and everybody knows it.
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There is NO constitutional right of abortion. The Supreme Court just made it up. The time for a woman to choose whether to have a child is BEFORE she gets pregnant, not after, just as the time for a person to decide to play roulette or not is BEFORE the ball drops, not after. You gamble, you lose, that's your problem, not the child's. One of the best lines ever written for Ronald Reagan was the observation that everyone in favor of abortion has already been born.
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Any government with criminal jurisdiction has an obligation to defend innocent life. Of what value is government if there are no people, because they've all been killed. We maintain police forces and military forces for the same purpose: to defend innocent life.
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How DARE you compare a baby to a cancer? "A human fetus" is in fact one definition of "child": http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/child.
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Inexcusable anti-child and anti-male propaganda. If you mean "abortion", don't say "reproductive rights". Abortion ENDS reproduction, it does not accord it rights. The abortion-on-demand crowd just will not deal with the truth. Abortion is an ugly word because it is an ugly deed, and should be punished by DEATH in every case in which the life of the mother -- not her bank account, nor her 'mental state' nor anything else -- is truly at risk.
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There are at least a dozen ways to prevent unwanted pregnancies. What is missing is not contraceptive methods but the will to employ them because you can always kill the kid.
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Government has a responsibility to protect innocent life. That is why we have police. We don't stand idly by and let druglords mow down kids on the streets; we mustn't stand idly by while the abortion INDUSTRY -- Murder, Inc. -- mows down kids in the womb.
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This is so utterly and off-the-wall-nuts wrong that it cannot be a sincere assertion by a sane person. Please explain what money there is in PREVENTING abortion? The money is made by COMMITTING abortion, for a fee.
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The "morning after" pill is an ABORTIfacient. It does not prevent conception; it just kills the child sooner rather than later.
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Conception is the combination of a spermatazoon and an ovum. PREGNANCY is attachment of the embryo to the uterine wall and the growth of the new life via the nutrition provided thru that wall. You are CONFUSING pregnancy and contraception. The two things are ENTIRELY different. That the manufacturer of an abortifacient might want people to think it is a contraceptive is understandable, but a contraceptive prevents CONCEPTION, not just pregnancy.
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We outlaw murder of all kinds. That does not stop all would-be murderers from killing, but it stops some. And so what if women who try to kill their babies die in the attempt? Good!
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What makes you think that a teenager whose hormones are raging is going to listen more to his/her parents than to his or her hormones?
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So you're saying, if you don't want to murder someone, don't murder someone. But if you do, that's alrite too, eh?
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Christianity's God of Love and Judaism's God of Wrath are obviously NOT the same God, but Christianity was put forward first among Jews -- who didn't accept it -- and so it had to try to pose as Judaism. Since that didn't work, Christians of the second generation should have repudiated Judaism entirely and severed the Old Testament, with all its killings, from the New Testament entirely. Then no one could condemn Christianity for the violence of the Old Testament, because the Christian Bible would not HAVE an Old Testament.
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"Choice" means the "right" to "choose" to murder a child. There is no such "choice" in morality, and thus "choice" is a LIE. Pro-Life is correct, but pro-abortion should be termed Anti-Life.
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The Constitution does not empower the Supreme Court to make law. That is for Congress and the President, acting together, or for Congress acting alone by supermajority to override a Presidential veto. If the Framers had intended the Supreme Court to have any role in legislation, it would have SPECIFIED what that role is, and if it was a veto, then the Framers would have specified a way by which Congress and the President, acting together, or Congress acting alone by a supermajority, could override the Supreme Court. The fact that no such override was provided proves that the Supreme Court is NOT authorized by the Constitution to play ANY role in legislation -- not any role at all. The function of the courts is to apply the generalities of the law to the specifics of a given case, NOT to write laws themselves.
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Abortion-on-demand is not "progressive", not Liberal.
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A baby is not part of a woman's body, so you are falsifying the issue. Nor [in response to the asserton that conservatives want government to do nothing] do I think even conservatives want toxins in food or the paint on babies toys.
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Oh, that's cute: opposing abortion is "murderous". COMMITTING abortion, however, is not remotely murderous.
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Rational people do not mix-and-match issues that have no relation to each other. As for morality, that really is usually black-or-white. Murdering the innocent is always wrong; protecting the innocent is always right.
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So I suppose we should now impose a statute of limitations for murder. If you haven't been detected or prosecuted within -- what? an hour -- you are entitled to get away with it, right?
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A baby is NOT part of a woman's body, so you are falsifying the issue. So people who kill should be left alone, and their guilt is sufficient punishment, is it? So if someone murders YOU, we should just stand aside and let the killer punish himself thru guilt s/he may never feel. There is NO right to abortion in the Constitution, and abortion was illegal for almost 200 years. The Constitution was never amended in those 200 years to create a right of abortion, so there IS NO right of abortion. A child's right to life is its OWN, not its mother's.
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Since there is no hell, it is for society to establish and defend morality.
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Men do not control abortion. Women do.
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Men have absolutely no say over abortion. No rights? No responsibilities. That's the way it works. Women can LIE and claim they are taking The Pill. It is the woman who gambles with pregnancy. The responsibility for bad choices is wholly hers.
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The "law" you speak of is no such thing. To the extent Congress or any state recognized a "right" of abortion, it is under the misunderstanding that the Supreme Court creates law. It does not. Congress does, and courts have NO Constitutional role in legislating.
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There is no God, and morality does not depend on belief in God.
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Absurd. To outlaw murder is not to outlaw everything. A woman's body does NOT include the child that is only temporarily inside it. This endless falsification of the issue shows the people who lie about it as having absolutely no integrity. The typical woman's life is 75 years [3/4 of a century]; the typical pregnancy lasts nine months, 3/4 of a year; ergo, a pregnancy constitutes 1% of a woman's life. Having to bring to term a baby her own actions produced -- including first and foremost the action of refusing to be sterilized -- is not a major imposition, but trivial. Killing the child, however, ends 100% of its life, and is utterly without justification. The balance of hardships comes down solidly on the side of the child.
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Stop lying about "her body". A baby is NOT a mother's body but the baby's own body. As for overpopulation, tubal ligation on millions of women who don't want babies would handle that very nicely without killing a single child.
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Sexual orientation is no more a choice than gender, race -- or species, for that matter.
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You're not making any sense. If we can never take a life, no matter what horrible things the person at issue has done, how can we deter or punish murder? Any right can be forfeited by wrongful deeds, but an unborn child commits no wrongful deeds, so does not forfeit his or her right to life.
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Incest is not punishable by death, nor should it be. Rape is generally not punishable by death, nor should it be. But in any case, the baby didn't rape and the baby did not commit incest. As for the "health" of the "LIVING" mothers, pregnancy is not a disease, and babies live too. These "exceptions" are just the thin edge of the wedge of abortion-on-demand, because women and abortionists can conspire together to claim something that just isn't true in order to get an abortion.
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Very few people want severely handicapped children to be born as a burden to their families and society. The child's own life would be hell, and almost nobody would be opposed to abortion of a truly SEVERELY deformed child. The issue becomes a sliding scale of "deformity" up to "imperfection". One must be very careful which things get on the list of justifications for abortion.
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No, capital punishment is NOT murder. Murder is WRONGFUL killing. Punishing someone for a horrendous crime is RIGHTFUL killing. People who are incapable of understanding that key distinction are incapable of any moral judgment whatsoever.
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A newborn baby, or a three-month old, or a person in a coma or seriously injured in an accident are all incapable of life on their own. Kill them all, shall we?
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Homosexuality is no more criminal a trait than is heterosexuality. And as for AIDS, it is a DRUG INJURY in the West and the result of poverty, starvation, and endemic diseases that have ALWAYS killed people young in Africa. It has NOTHING to do with sex, but even if it did (which it doesn't) it would be passed as easily by heterosexual sex as homosexual (as is claimed for AIDS in Africa, which is found primarily among heterosexuals). Your intolerance and mindless bigotry are as bad as your science.
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You have completely either misrepresented or misunderstood the statistics. When Kaiser says that 53% of abortions are among white women, that is a grand total, for a population that is 6X as large as the black population. 35% of abortions for blacks, who constitute 13% of the female population shows them to have nearly 3X as many as white women, PER CAPITA.
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[In reply to the assertion that if men got pregnant, abortion would be legal and readily available] And if MEN had to do the fiting, there would be no wars! A baby is NOT part of a woman's body, so stop with the antiscientific lies. Men care deeply about moral issues, and are willing to fite to defend the helpless from all comers, even their own mother -- or father.
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So there's no such thing as a slut, eh? Yes there is. How about those women who went on Maury Povich's show multiple times, each time with a new set of possible "baby daddies", asking for DNA tests to find the real father?
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Bristol Palin accepted responsibility for her acts and brought the baby into this world. So what are you saying? That if a woman (that is, a female person capable of having a baby) acts irresponsibly, the child should die?
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Should you ever have an accident and be lying helpless and unconscious down a hillside, you too will be incapable of life on your own, so I guess we should just kill you. No need for an ambulance to take you to a hospital. EMS workers could just crush your skull and dump you where the flies and crows can dispose of the body.
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No, life begins at conception. That's how we can have in vitro fertilization.
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Who, on either side of the political divide, is in favor of letting a child starve to death? That is monstrous falsification of the issue. Abortion is "legal" only because the Supreme Court CLAIMED it suddenly, after almost 200 years of being ILLEGAL, was legal. The Supreme Court is not authorized to write laws, and any new Supreme Court can make abortion illegal again. There is not one word in the Constitution granting a right of abortion.
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We see Radical Lesbian rage at men parading as political reason in some of these comments. Men cannot demand a woman get an abortion, and are not allowed to save the life of their own child, in at least some jurisdictions. Leave men out of it. Abortion is a women's crime committed by hired killers who may be men but instituted by women.
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You have an amazing ability to fly in the sky, untethered to earthly truths. Some gay people are made to hate themselves by people like you, and then it is THEY who are to blame for hating themselves. Amazing. Perhaps you know nothing about nature. All kinds of animals are attracted to their own sex. You don't have to go far. Male dogs will mount other male dogs; male cats will mount other male cats. You just discount it as confusion, not attraction. Sex has uses other than procreation. It builds bonds, creates affectionate relationships, makes people happy. Homosexuality also has the added benefit to the planet of doing all this without adding unwanted children to this overpopulated orb. There is not a single abortion that was ever 'needed' because of homosexual sex -- ever, in the history of the world..
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The baby is NOT part of the mother's body, so "Your body, your decision" applies only to the BABY, who is NOT given any decision over what is done to his or her body.
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An abortionist is not a doctor, only a butcher. Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath, and are taught medical ethics' most fundamental principle: "first, do no harm".
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So men have no right to judge women who steal, or assault people, or commit any other crime, eh? What an interesting "morality" you have.
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Abortion is hidden murder, but a concealed crime is still a crime. Bring it out in the open. If abortion were committed right in front of them, how many of these abortion-is-great people would be delited to watch?
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Drivel, most it is irrelevant. "Endanger"? She did this to herself, and must learn to live with the consequences, which will occupy about 1% of her life. Nobody is stopping anybody from getting information about contraception. It is widely available in schools and ON THE INTERNET!
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You say that abortion is murder, but it should be legal. What a great idea! Let's just legalize murder and save the police for really important matters, like ... uh ...
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Yes, and if the "sandwich" generation trying to take care of kids and aging parents get tired of those burdens, they should be allowed to kill the kids, the parents, or both, right?
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The bulk of scientific and technological advances are being made by the children of Baby Boomers. Entire industries and branches of science and technology were created by and are being worked on by the children of Baby Boomers. As for overpopulation, that is best addressed by (a) mass sterilization, starting with people who want never to have children, and (b) encouraging homosexuality, so people aren't frustrated but the sex they have does not produce children.
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You are positing an absurdly atypical case. Few 12-year-old girls are able to have children. Extremely few fathers rape their own daughter. Bearing a child in countries, like ours, with modern medicine rarely kills. One after another of your silly premises would have to fall in place to endanger the mother; and caesarean section of a child a few weeks before term would in almost all circumstances be the most that would be required. Nature doesn't make girls fertile until they are able to bear children. That's what fertility is, the natural point at which a girl child is large enuf to bear a child of her own. The ONLY issue of any validity at all in your fanciful, and preposterously unrepresentative scenario is the LIFE of the mother, and with modern medicine, almost NO mother dies at childbirth anymore. Even so, let's play your little game and concede that if the girl's LIFE were truly at issue, then an abortion, tho tragic, might be excused as a sad necessity. That is NOT what we are talking about with the great preponderance -- 99.99999% -- are about.
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That is a poisonous misrepresentation: "The law ... says Viagra can be prescribed only when medically necessary, and in limited quantities." It is for sexual dysfunction, not recreation. Isn't it odd that the very same people who say that abortion is a decision between a woman and her doctor do not concede that Viagra is NOT properly a decision between a man and his doctor, even tho it doesn't kill anybody? I don't know what contraceptives are or are not covered by the prescription-drug benefit, and for women on MEDICARE (which doesn't kick in until age 65) it is a non-issue. I certainly am not taking YOUR word for it. As for estrogren replacement therapy, there is a HUGE and ongoing controversy over whether it does more harm than good. Many experts say that it increases the chances of various CANCERS. So the issue is not as simplistic and "prejudiced" as you pretend.
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Oops. I left out the citation for the quote: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/01/health/main670833.shtml. And of course I meant that the women contemptuous of men's being permitted to get Viagra do not concede that this IS a decision between the doctor and patient.
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The electric chair has not been used in this country for decades, and black kids have plenty of opportunities. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but the President of the United States identifies himself as black.
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Some Liberals have been misled from the fundamental stance that government and society must defend the helpless against the powerful. I don't know how it happened, but it must be reversed, and Liberals must become adamant about defending the defenseless, always.
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So if the world is overpopulated, we should just decide by how much the planet's population should be cut, and if it's by 10%, we should just count off every person on Earth and kill every 10th person, right? Murdering people for population control is morally impermissible, but if it were to be done, I could supply quite a list of names of bad people to be murdered to make room for good people. You don't commit murder to limit what can perfectly well be limited by contraceptive measures, including tubal ligation.
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Men don't get pregnant. If women don't want to get pregnant, then it is WOMEN who have to take the precautions. If you don't want to get hit by a car, don't cross a busy street against the lite. It's not up to drivers who have every right to be where they are, doing what they're doing, to protect you from your own stupidity.
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It is NOT any given person's responsibility to adopt. There are plenty of people who DO adopt, and a child's right to live is not dependent upon whether there is an adoptive parent for him. Stop pushing one person's responsibilities off onto another. If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, there are probably 30 different things she can do to prevent it. The child can do NOTHING. By the way, I DID try to adopt, but antihomosexual bigotry kept me from doing so. Society makes adoption difficult, and then complains that kids are unadopted.
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The great preponderance of child abuse is by NATURAL parents, not adoptive. Cut the crap. All this anti-adoption propaganda -- it is better to be dead than adopted! -- is MALICIOUS lies by the abortion-on-demand crowd.
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So men should have no say as to what happens to children, eh? Then why are so many women adamant about hunting down "deadbeat dads", and even putting them into PRISON? If men have no say about abortion, then they have no obligations toward the children not aborted either. Laws are written to protect people, and to say that men shouldn't interfere in abortion because it's a women's issue is exactly like saying that men shouldn't bother to write or enforce laws against rape, because that too is a women's issue.
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Please cite the specific passage of the Constitution in which the word "abortion" occurs.
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Murder is everybody's business. Laws try to stop people from doing terrible things. Are you really the anarchist you pretend to be? Or do you understand that things like stealing and killing should be prevented or punished if not prevented?
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What a bunch of nonsense. There are all kinds of programs, public and private, to help the poor in this country. And a baby is NOT part of a woman's body. She has only two arms and two legs, not four of each. If she wants to cut off her arm, that's her business. But her baby's arm, leg, heart are not hers to destroy.
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No, morality is NOT just personal. Many of the exact same things are forbidden all around the world, and murder is one of them.
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(The current U.S. military death toll in Iraq, according to the website "Iraq Coalition Casualties", is 4,439 — for Israel.)



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